Journeys of Healing: Ian

In this episode of PIR® Integration Radio, Ian shares a deeply personal and reflective conversation about recovery, spirituality, and the evolving relationship between sobriety and psychedelic experience.

With honesty and humility, Ian speaks about his journey from heavy drinking in adolescence to over eleven years of sobriety, reflecting on the pain, isolation, and searching that shaped his early life. He describes how recovery gradually opened the door to connection, meaning, and a new way of living — one grounded in fellowship, spiritual growth, and self-awareness.

Together, we explore the role psychedelics have played in Ian’s ongoing recovery journey, not as an escape, but as experiences approached with reverence, responsibility, and care. Ian reflects on the importance of intention, integration, and community support when navigating powerful inner experiences, and on how these moments deepened his sense of connection to life, spirituality, and higher purpose.

This conversation highlights recovery as a living and evolving process — one that asks for openness, humility, discernment, and the willingness to continue growing through both joy and challenge.

A thoughtful reminder that healing often unfolds through connection: to ourselves, to others, and to something greater than ourselves.

  PIR® Integration Radio is a podcast produced by Psychedelics in Recovery.
In keeping with PIR® traditions, the podcast offers a space for reflection, shared experience, and integration, in support of recovery. It does not promote or endorse substance use. 

Follow PIR®

Instagram · @pirworldwide TikTok · @pir_worldwide  YouTube · @psychedelicsinrecovery Linkedin· @psychedelicsinrecovery

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Like my recovery brought me to a higher power of my understanding. And for that I owe it everything. So I owe that back to these programs every day. I understand what fanatical religious people who have had these experiences, what they're talking about, because I've had those visceral experiences. I just use different words for it.

SPEAKER_01 0:24

Welcome to Psychedelics in Recovery Integration Radio, a safe space where PIR, also known as Persons in Recovery, come and share their experience, strengths, and hope with us with you. My name is Anne. I'm a person in recovery and your host today. This radio is part of PIR's ongoing effort to carry the message of recovery to those still suffering. In alignment with the 12 traditions that guide our fellowship, this program will not be funded by outside contributions. PIR as an organization has no opinion on outside issues. While we discuss plant medicine and psychedelics in this episode, PIR does not promote or endorse AU. The spiritual intention of PIR and of this broadcast is to create diverse, safe and sacred spaces for all who wish to recover. Always thriving for humility over hubris and principles before personality. Whether you're new to the idea of integrating psychedelics or plant medicine in your recovery process, new to recovery or a longtime member of the fellowship, our aim is to create a space of curiosity, connection, and hope. In this first series, entitled Journeys of Healing, we explore the intersection of recovery and the transformative potential of psychedelic medicine through some of our members' experience. So settle in, open your mind, and let's walk this past together. This is Integration Radio, and today it gives me great pleasure to introduce Ian, who's going to share his experience, strength, and hope with us. Hello, Ian. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Hi Ian, thanks for having me.

unknown 2:03

Hello.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

How are you?

unknown 2:04

Hello.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

I'm good. I was just saying it's weird to be on the other side of the uh of the microphone.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Yeah. Because for our listener, Ian has been editing the first uh six episodes of the podcast. Uh um and he's our editor-in-chief, but we now have uh a team of three uh helping out, which is great. And um that's what service should be like shared.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Oh absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

And it's fun.

SPEAKER_03 2:31

Yeah, whole production team now.

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Yeah, you're a production team, exactly. All this in the space of what, you know, a few months. So thank you very much for your contribution and for your service to this podcast. And now on the other side, it's gonna be your opportunity to uh to tell us your story. And uh and firstly, how did you get into recovery? When was it? What did it look like? Which fellowship, if if any, can you tell us a bit about how you got here?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Good question. Um, so I guess my story would start in like adolescence. That's when my my use started innocently enough at the beginning, and then uh a little more, you know, abusive and intense as time went on. So yeah, I drank pretty heavily through most of my adolescence, which I didn't realize was abnormal until probably like my middle twenties. Yeah, and I got sober in Alcoholics Anonymous in 2015, January 21st of 2015 is my date. And um, yeah, it was uh a pretty I mean, people if if you found your way here, you already know what the story is. Like, there's no dorks here. Like people don't just make it to recovery by not experiencing the same things that all of us have experienced, you know. Um people You mean a rock bottom? Yeah, everybody has experienced their version of a rock bottom, and everybody's suffering is individual to them, and it's their truth, and it I think that it needs to be respected, you know.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

Um, so yeah, and I found mine in um January of 2015. And the way that looked for me was just like I had sufficiently hurt all the people around me that I loved to a degree that was irrevocable, I thought at that point. I realized I had a moment of clarity after I had hurt one of my best friends bad enough that um I had the potential to destroy every relationship that I cared about and event and self-destruct. I could destroy myself whenever I uh you know, whenever the alcohol decided that it it was ready for that. So yeah, that was what put me on the on the path. So I spent a long time. I still attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings, and um I still will continue to do that. It's given me everything. I mean, my recovery has given me everything, and that's why I treat it with the you know the utmost respect, and that's why I treat these medicines and modalities in this program with just as much respect as I've treated my recovery because it's the most important aspect in my life. Like my recovery brought me to a higher power of my understanding, and for that I owe it everything. So I owe that back to these programs every day.

SPEAKER_01 5:26

So you your story is um because you're you're young and you're 11 years sober.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

So can you tell me a bit more about your rock bottom, what it looked like? And and from what you're saying, you've never relapsed.

SPEAKER_03 5:41

No, no, I haven't I haven't experienced a relapse.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

That's extraordinary.

SPEAKER_03 5:45

Yeah, it's it is, especially uh like a lot of the people I got sober with in 2015 uh started relapsing pretty quickly, and um, you know, a lot of them didn't make it, uh, which is really sad. I think about them all the time.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

No, I'm sorry to hear.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

Thanks, yeah. And uh I try to keep I I've fallen off doing it because it's it's macabre, but I have a lot of their names in uh the back of my big book. So um just to remember like what they gave me, what I was able to give them, and why I'm still here doing what I'm doing. And um yeah, so like the way it looked for me was just a lot of like I've played in bands my whole life um and always romanticized that idea of like tragic artist stuff, and uh which I feel totally different about now as a relatively fully grown person. Uh and but that contributed a lot to like uh my use because the people around me, um, especially in adolescence, it was something that we romanticized. So it's something that became once it became accessible, uh drugs and alcohol were relatively just available and there to be explored. And then eventually what was recreation started to become abusive, you know, abusive relationships with these substances. But alcohol is my primary um primary drug of choice, if you will. And when I arrived like at the hospital uh to go to rehab, it was um a it was I my first roommate was like, What are you here for? And I was like, uh, booze. And he's like, Yeah, no, but like, what are you really here for? And I was like, I'm a drunk, like I I got I need to get sober. I can't, I can't stop drinking. And he's like, dude, you are a dying breed. This is I he's like, I've never even met like a an alcoholic in one of these places. He's like, there's there's only uh heroin and fentanyl addicts anymore coming to these places. And I was like, that that was baffling to me. Um, so to like find my tribe at the hospital I was at, even was um kind of interesting. Um so a lot of the people uh that I was surrounded with were were heroin addicts, which was interesting. I I went on to sponsor a lot of heroin addicts, and it it's difficult for me uh not having that experience because I love these people dearly. I I I love junkies, I don't care who hears me say that, um, because they've carried my recovery so far. Um, but in trying in having like sponsorship with these people, it's it's hard because I don't experience some of the things they experience. Um and uh, you know, that's really that's difficult and upsetting for me because I want to I want to be able to help more. Um but yeah, sorry, that's about them. More about me. Like, yeah, that's the way it looked like for me is uh alcohol became the center of my life pretty quickly. Um, and after I drank myself out of a couple of jobs, uh I didn't know how to like acclimate to regular social uh I think I was like socially maladjusted, you know, from probably an early age, and from the first time that I experienced what alcohol had to offer, it gave me everything. Um, you know, it like turned on this thing in my brain where all of a sudden I was the person that I always thought that I was, and it was it was like the first time I was seeing myself um for all the potential that I had, and and like the world was just as uh um you know, romantic, I guess, in the classical sense, not in the love sense, like romantic and bright and vibrant as I thought it was, and like adventure was everywhere, and uh it was almost psychedelic, uh, the way that I saw the world the first time uh that I had alcohol, and it be quickly became like my my tool and my best friend. It like enabled me to speak the truth, it enabled me to um put on the the performance of the person that I thought I was, um, which you know it turned into like a you know I I like to say I was an egomaniac with an inferiority complex, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:16

I didn't uh like a lot of alcoholics, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Yeah, I'm like died in the wool, alcoholic, and it and it's a genetic predisposition to me too. Like my grandma refers to it as a family curse, and uh we continue to lose family members. Just lost another one and lost my cousin and nearly lost another cousin, lost my uncle uh recently, and uh you know it's and and just like it's been a uh evil and corroding thread through the my like genetics. Um but I feel fortunate to have it because having alcoholism gives me an opportunity to recover, and recovery uh has given me a really good life, as as crummy as things can get sometimes, um, or as dark or uh painful as things can be. Uh like I'm I'm grateful to be alive, and uh my alcoholism has given me that. Like I've met people all over. Like if I hadn't been an alcoholic, I'd never make it to PIR. You know, I just spent a month in San Diego with a fellow for like yeah, like got to, you know, basically be on vacation and have for lunch with my friend twice a week, go to the beach, go surfing, and just like do like have the adventuresome life that I've always wanted to have, and that's like a gift of my recovery.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

And tell me how how many years into your recovery from alcohol uh alcoholism did you discover PIR or psychedelics? What came first?

SPEAKER_03 11:50

Um, I discovered so I I had always maintained well, I don't know if you want to call it a reservation. At first it it really concerned me, um, as it should with anybody, dude. Like we gotta tread pretty lightly with this stuff because alcohol is like alcohol is a subtle foe. And if that's your problem, like if you're listening to this and that's your problem, that is true. You have to maintain, you know, diligence with recovery, uh, because I've seen it sneak up on people and they end up drunk and they didn't mean to, it just, you know, the work fell by the wayside, or they just, you know, things get crazy, and we reach for the tool that that we know works. Um, so like I don't get mad at those people or anything because I get it. Like, alcohol, like I said, offered me everything. That was my solution to everything until it took everything from me. But um the way that I discovered PIR was uh as I I as my pink cloud faded, and I had a long one. I mean, I had a really long pink cloud. I also did all everything wrong in rehab, you know. Like I watched Boogie Nights all the time, which is like not that's if anybody knows what that movie is, it's just like rampant drug use and uh and alcoholism throughout the whole movie, and it's really glorified. Uh, but and like I got into a relationship right right out of the hospital and stayed in that relationship for 10 years, which is a whole other story that like you can call me and we can talk about it, but um I so I didn't do things you know by the book by any means, and I still don't, but that's to say that somewhere around like the three-year mark or four-year mark, something was still kind like my anxiety had largely gone away. My depression had largely escaped me because I remember in my first leads telling people, like, I thought that I drank because of my depression. I thought I drank because of my anxiety, but then when I stopped drinking, those things like really did go away for a long time. Um, but when they slowly started to come back and those clouds started to form again, I was like, well, I would say when they finish, I had had an LSD experience what when I was still drinking, when I was uh, I don't know, I was probably 22. Um, and it was profound enough that I was like, this is something I like, I want I do want to revisit this at some point. This is uh there's something here. And then when I got sober and experienced the pink cloud for the first time, that was a very psychedelic experience as well. And that kind of stuck with me because it's the same kind of parts of your brain, I feel like are lighting up. And then when the depression and anxiety kind of started to come back and become cumbersome again, uh I thought that might be something that I would revisit to integrate and to um work through what the actual root causes of that are. I'm a very inquisitive person, I'm realizing now, uh, maybe to a fault, especially lately. I've been trying to tackle some other things involving like obsessive compulsive disorder and and ADHD that have just frustrated me for my whole life. Um, even though they're part of me, I'm trying to like accept them for what they are, but I'm also trying to navigate them in different ways than I have. Um and so that so through uh experiencing those two things, uh, along with the anxiety that comes with those, I was curious if psychedelics would be a viable uh tool to work through those. So I always maintained through my recovery that if they ever finish at the time, I said if they ever finish the Johns Hopkins studies, because that was like big news at the at the time when I was about five or six years sober, uh, if they ever finish those, like I'm gonna go take mushrooms at one of these colleges, like I'm gonna sign up to be a guinea pig. Uh, and I can't, like, you know, I want I want to do that. Um and that some people, you know, that freaks some people out, and other people were like open, they're like, Yeah, I thought, you know, I think I've seen that too, and I I think that there's there is something to be offered there. There's something to be said about those uh those treatments. Um but then what that looked like is eventually um eventually something in the universe told me that like it's this is the time, like you you you should think about this now. And uh it was right when COVID COVID had started. Um, and I, you know, I was trying to take walks every day and and do those things. So I was doing a lot of like meditating and thinking, and uh eventually it just came to mind to like Google psychedelics and recovery because I'd been talking enough about it and thinking enough about it, um, and I think I had enough respect at the time that I needed to find community to talk about this because it was something that was rattling around in my mind. And I had talked about it in smaller AA meetings that like this is something that I'm thinking about because something has to change, and I'm living the principles, but these results are not exactly the promises have come true, but there's something lingering.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

So you Googled you Googled psychedelics and recovery, presumably you found the website.

SPEAKER_03 17:24

Yeah. Um, there was no, was there a website that yeah, there was like you know, a dot net style flash website, is the way I see it in my head, even though that was only like six years ago. Um, but the the thing at the time was there was only there was one meeting a week on Thursday nights, now known as the OG meeting. Uh no, I'm sorry. It's even worse than that. There was one meeting once a month, and it was on rotating days. So it was very, it was not easy. To remember. It was a very like, it's a clandestine, yeah. It was a very like clandestine and and uh kind of like yeah, very kind of secretive thing. Um so I kept trying to hit these Thursday nights, but every every week when it would rotate, be like, oh, it was the it's the next Thursday, or it was the last Thursday, I would just miss it. And then um finally I got to one and it was uh like I it was like the first time that I landed in an AA meeting, you know, like my first AA meeting uh was when I was in the hospital still, and they were I was in detox and they were like, if you're feeling well enough, you should go to a meeting. And I was like, What what is a meeting? What are you talking about? They're like, just go to that room over there, and I landed in an AA meeting, and everybody in there was like telling my story and talking about the things that they've experienced that I'd never heard anybody else talk about before. And um it was a really I you know it was a a spiritual experience and part of my spiritual awakening to hear other people, you know, talking about the real shit for lack of a better, you know, word. But um, and when I made it to PIR, it was the same exact feeling as when I came into the rooms of Alcoholics Anonymous, where it's like these people have it. How can I be a part of this? How can I get what these people have? Because they had a light that I hadn't seen. Like the people in my recovery groups were are great people, but they the the solution for them was no longer working. There was something else needed there. Um, and when I made it to PIR, I've you know, I realized that this was part, this is going to be part of my story.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

So what attract what let's pause here for a minute, please, and um and look at you know that first meeting when you say it it had the same effect as your first AA meeting. What did you feel the people in that meeting had that you wanted? Can you tell us a bit more about that first impression and describe the first the first meeting?

SPEAKER_03 20:03

Yeah, so man, I was it's it's hard because I want to I want to say everybody who was there, but I like I can't spill the beans. Um, but it's people you'll still see some of these people in the rooms. Um, some of them have gone on to like greater things, um, some of them have died, unfortunately. Um, when you're in a fellowship long enough, like you you do end up losing people. But here's like the thing is like they had in in the big book literature, there's like um, you know, Ebby comes to visit Bill, and he's got the he said they he describes it as this like he's got this sparkle in his eye. He's like he's there's something about him, it's changed, you know. And that's what I saw is like these people have seen something that I don't like I don't know what it is, and I don't know where they got it, but something about this group of people meeting and the things that they're talking about is special and they they have something that I need. Um, it had like a um almost magical quality about it, but I was still like a little um not hesitant, but like I was cautious because I was like, we're talking about real, like this is real deal stuff, dude. Like we're we're in recovery and talking about uh medicines that can bring about like you know, euphoric experiences or like the it's it's intense. Like these are mind-altering, uh conscious-altering modalities and um you know, spirits that uh this is a whole other realm. Um, but the respect I came in with is like I want to further my recovery. Like, I didn't feel like I had graduated or anything like that. I didn't feel superior to anyone. I just felt like my path. There was more to be seen and more to be experienced. Um, and like God had more to offer me if I was willing to take this this path. And there, and and there was a healthy amount of fear too. Like we used to say in the rooms, you don't hear it as much, but there was a good uh fellow who is a an OG, one of the first 20 probably, uh, that used to say, if you're not scared, if you're coming into this and you're not scared, then you you don't have enough respect for the medicine that you're about to uh commune with. Like there there needs to be a a healthy amount of respect, and that can involve your yeah, respect reverence for the medicine, absolutely. That's a great word, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Um I I think it's uh it it's it's it's I had exactly the same feeling when when I had the call for from initially PIR, and I knew there was more out there. It was almost like AA was a beautiful cathedral, but there was a side door I had not yet found to an even bigger realm behind, beyond.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

And uh and I'm so glad you found it, and I'm so glad I found it. Thanks. And you found it, so it was the early days of PIR, only one meeting. So you're part of that um club called the First Hundred.

SPEAKER_03 23:17

Yeah, yeah, I would say I'm part of the first the first hundred PIRs, yeah. I think when I arrived, I think there was like four maybe forty or fifty active members. Um, but you'd still only there was usually 25 of us in a meeting, I think, um, on Zoom at that time. And uh so it was like the three co-founders, and then you know, and then you'd have all these other people, and a lot of them are still, you know, there's a good number of them still around.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

And and so um what happened next? So you decide to come to this meeting more frequently, uh, and then what happened next to your story?

SPEAKER_03 23:56

Yeah, so since it was like COVID, there was um it became I started replacing uh whatever my Thursday night was uh with that meeting, and these the parking lots at that point could go up to five hours, you know, four or five hours. We'd yeah, because it's like what what else are we gonna do? You know. Um, so there were a lot of ideas shared, and it became a really sacred space for a lot of people really quickly. And eventually it was like, you guys want to do this again like next Thursday, instead of waiting for three Thursdays or two Thursdays or whatever it was at that point, because they started getting closer and closer together, and then it became psychedelics and recovery was every Thursday night, and that was my Thursday night meeting. And then gradually, um, I don't remember what transpired. There might have been two more. We might have started like a Sunday night or something like that at that point, but uh one night after a meeting, uh somebody in the group called me and said, Do you listen? Uh I've been thinking about it for a long time. Uh we should start a Monday night meeting. And I said, Yeah, that's a great idea. So uh a fellow and I started, well, I should I don't I I should give him credit because it's his idea, but um the integration group started that way. Or I'm sorry, the NTON group started that way. So um I was able to be the co-host of the Enteon, uh, the chairperson for uh probably a year and a half when that started. And then um, you know, I remember Ramen group starting, and that whole thing was was amazing and magical, and I missed that person dearly. And um yeah, and I think she deserves credit too because she was uh one of those like light beings that you only experience once once in a lifetime, and like sorry. But um yeah, there was like there's when you're involved in a fellowship like this, um, even though it's like online most of the time, um, I've gotten the opportunity to like meet a lot of these people in person. And uh it's so I mean I've been around the world with this this fellowship, um and you meet these people and they're just like these um flashes of light or something like they're just miracles and when uh when they transcend and um they're no longer like with us in this like physical plane, uh it's difficult because they were like so they have such a big part of like you uh of your recovery and your experience and life and like my like the things I get to do and the things I've seen and the experiences I've had because of PIR, like those are so much because of those people, and they like changed my perspective on life so much. Um and uh it hurts to like not see their faces anymore or hear their voices um on the meetings, you know. Uh but I still hear their voices in my head, and I still I think of them all the time. Like every time I attend the ramen group, I'm gonna think of Ona, and I'm gonna think of Mitch every time I go to the San Diego group, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Um They they are frequently remembered in meetings, and actually the the the convention, the PIR convention taking place in in Denver in October, we're looking for a theme, and the very possi very strong possibility is that we are the medicine is the theme, and for me it's that's Mitch. That's uh and it would be and we will of course remember all our friends who have uh Twan Sunday, as you said, yeah, and passed on.

SPEAKER_03 28:21

But yeah, I mean wow, yeah, sorry I didn't know I was gonna cry on the room.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

No, that's uh that's speaking from the heart, that's what it's all about.

SPEAKER_03 28:31

Yeah, there's there's special, special beings in these rooms, and um yeah, it's like because before that I I was scared when I came here, I was feeling really isolated and alone in my traditional groups, which is hard because these are the people that saved my life, you know. Like Alcoholics Anonymous saved my life, and it kept me uh, I got to be of service, and I still am of service, and it taught me how to live, it gave me a new map for living that I didn't have before. So to walk away from that seemingly, or to like start to deviate from that path in any way was terrifying. Of course. And the people in PIR told me that it was gonna be okay, and that I was still in the right place, and that as long as I'm aligned with my higher powers' will for me, and I'm trying to carry that out, and that I'm walking that path, and as long as these medicines are taking me closer to the spirit and not farther away, then I'm on the right path. Um, and I've carried that with me, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:33

Yeah, and and so what what medicine did you choose uh initially for for your first ceremony?

SPEAKER_03 29:40

Um, I was always like most curious about mushrooms, um from what I've like from everything, and I and I read, I read a lot. Uh like I exhausted myself with reading. Uh and uh I wanted to know where they came from. Why like aliens? It's like where do they come from? Why are they here? What are they trying to tell us? You know, who discovered this? And like I wanted to have that respect and reverence, like we talked about for this, um, for these entities prior to uh you know, prior to like entering that space, um, I needed to treat this with the same like sacred respect and reverence that I treat Alcoholics Anonymous. Um and that's the attitude that I went in with. This wasn't like I wasn't here to I I'm always here to party, right? Like, I mean like in life. I'm here to have the best living experience that I can. But this wasn't like I wasn't coming here to screw around. I'm here to uh I'm here as a seeker. And uh I'm trying to get like as closely aligned with my pop my higher power as I possibly can and live in that spiritual solution all the time and share that with other people uh who are willing to have it. Because sometimes man, people were talking about we'll talk about stuff and it starts to freak me out. Like, I get that. Um, I had a real adversity to I came here to recovery a pretty militant atheist, and I I didn't know what I was gonna do because the solution was spiritual, and that freaked me out. It's the same way now I'm having like, I mean, that was my problem then. That's a pretty big problem to have. Like, I was willing to accept a spiritual solution, but my idea at the time was I'm gonna fake this until I can figure out what's next. And eventually, through these spiritual experiences, like I tell people all the time, I've seen the face of God. You can't describe it to anybody. Like, you know, the way that I found it is in the water and putting myself in situations that you know are not I I don't know if you call them safe or whatever, but I feel held enough and safe enough in the water, which used to be one of my biggest fears. I was terrified of the water um because I knew that it could just take it it's totally indifferent to my existence or seemingly indifferent, I guess. And uh it was one of my biggest fears. I still don't care for deep water, but I try and get in the water every day. Um when can when the you know when it's not frozen where I live. Um and I try to commune with that spirit every day because like that's source for me. That's the thing that I'm made of. That's what my family, like my family's been in this region for a really long time. Um, so it became that was my first higher power. Um, but I didn't have as much respect for it as when I would have those visceral experiences communing with it directly and touching the source that I'm made of. Like I'm so lucky to have that opportunity. I don't I don't know what other people's experiences are like, but I don't want anybody else's experience. Like I want my my experience and and my God has given me everything. Um, and I'm so grateful to it. And that's like the real shit, dude. Like that's that's the real thing. Like I understand what uh fanatical religious people who have had like these experiences, what they're talking about, because I've had those visceral experiences. I just use different words for it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

And you've had those experiences uh thanks to mushrooms, that conscious contact with Haya Power?

SPEAKER_03 33:42

No, I've had those experiences thank you thanks to water. Thanks to water, yeah. Thanks to water. It's like it is extremely psychedelic, but I've had them, you know, years out from the la like I the last time I had like a perceptible dose of of mushrooms was you know a year ago. Um, and I'm st and I still have ex like experiences usually usually in the water, um, you know, swimming or surfing or whatever it is, um, but they're just as profound uh as as the experiences I've had with medicine. Experiences in ceremony, I should say. Ceremony, respect, and and reverence and all that stuff are like those are the most important, like those are the some of the pillars of these um of these experiences and these messages um that guide my recovery, you know. It's hard to explain, it's so esoteric and can be abstract. Uh, but like the medicine just sh just shows us, it just turns on the little TV in your brain or whatever analogy you like, and it can show you behind that curtain very briefly. Um, but then you come back, right? And it's like how and how do I integrate that into daily life? And that's when my practice lately, you know, is like and that's my next question.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Yeah, oh good. So perfect timing.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

I don't have an answer. If anybody has an answer, how do you integrate? Uh, because that's been my uh well, I haven't made it so much my practice lately, but that's like the question that I'm at. That's the place that I'm at right now because I want to spend the rest of my life just having peak experience, you know. I want to spend the rest of my life um in sacred places having peak experiences, like with, and by peak experience, I just mean like riding waves, which is a peak experience. I mean meeting people that are that are like-minded, uh like me, meeting people that are different than me too, and spending time with different cultures, learning new languages, um like, you know, just doing the traveling and making love and doing the things that we all think about as like a a life well lived. Like I just want my life to be a peak experience. Um, but that can be kind of intrusive because like now, like I've been I've lived fairly free for the last few years. I had a lot of really I mean, looking back on them now, it's not unfortunate things, but I've had things that have been very difficult to process and integrate in my life. You know, I've had relationships fall apart that I thought were gonna be forever. Things that I had committed to my mind as being um, you know, irreplaceable and forever and and were going to just be part of my life. Like, that's not part of my life anymore. And I was like, okay, well, what am I gonna do with this, with this newfound freedom and and all these things? Uh, and I'm trying to do it to the best of my ability and live the best life that I can live and not forget that like I am a being of God and I'm like here to experience life in its fullest. I'm just an avatar of God put here by the spirit to experience creation. Like, that's my attitude, at least. And how can I do that when I'm driving down I-90 trying to it's when it's 8:30 in the morning and I'm trying to get to work by 8 a.m.? You know, like how do I integrate back into the monotony of like daily American life or whatever it is, like into regular society when I, you know, when you've been dragged across a reef in Nicaragua? Like, how do those two things correlate? How do you stand on top of a mountain with 30 other PIRs in California one day, and then the next week you have to go back to whatever your your job is, like either like doing tech or pushing things through a warehouse or whatever that is? How do you integrate those peak experiences back into life? And do those like monotonous experiences of our everyday life make the peak experiences greater or or or period. They make them or do they make them? Yeah. Is this the fuel that you know that creates that vehicle?

SPEAKER_01 38:26

And and I think it's it's all in the integration, and we talk a lot about this, and and and the you know, it's it's reminds me of a sentence I've heard many times in AA. If it's not practical, it's not spiritual. So it's taking the spiritual messages that we receive in ceremonies or in those peak events and moment and uh remember them and infiltrate a little bit of it in our daily uh routine. Uh but it's tough. Uh it's tough. And uh and for me, I uh like you uh usually ceremony is once a year. But God, when it's that time of the year, I know it's coming, I know it's calling me. And I need that reset and and I really need that that perspective, really. Because what that's what psychedelics do to me, particularly mushrooms. They put me in a rocket and they proper you know, they take me so far up so that when I look down, I look at it from a great height. And a lot of a lot of things don't worry me anywhere near as much when I come back.

SPEAKER_03 39:29

Yeah, absolutely. That's and that's been the experience I had too. Like, I guess I haven't even talked about like my first mushroom experience or anything like that, but it was it was in recovery and um at it, and that was the experience that I had was uh like it started out. I I went to like it I wouldn't call it like a proper retreat, I guess. It was but it was a retreat. Like I I did uh go somewhere and there was facilitators. There were two facilitators, one was a monk and one was the person who uh tends tends this land that that um I was on and it's very sacred land. And um, you know, it was it was advertised to me as a low dose experience, which uh which appealed to me because it's like okay, I'll dip my toe in and and see what this is all about. But you had the option to have a booster every every hour, half hour, something like that. Uh so I started with the initial like low dose, uh, which is just like you know, low, and then um, and that was uh fine. It was kind of profound. I was really enjoying just being in nature and seeing the majesty of uh of nature, especially in that part of the country. And then uh the option came for the next booster, and I, you know, I was like, yeah, I'm feeling like this is I'm called to this. And then by the time the third one came around and I had spent some time with the medicine, I was starting to feel comfortable, and I was going inward and you know, laying down. And uh by the that we had a sacred fire that was going to go for the remainder of the ceremony, so it was tended all night, and uh things started to get just I I don't even remember what crossed my mind, but just something I was like, man, I got like I gotta get outside. And uh so I walked outside of the temple, and I'm sitting on the hillside, and everything was got really overwhelming for a second. I was like, I gotta go back inside, and I went back in the temple, and a lot of people have stories like this where it's like, man, I gotta get outside. Oh, I gotta go back inside. So, and then before I knew it, I don't know how much time had passed, and I started to get a little things got like a little challenging and hairy for a second, and I sat on the hill and I'm just like looking out over the mountains, and uh the facilitator, the woman, came up the hill and things were like starting to get weird, and I was just feeling really it was just becoming a challenging experience. And she sat down next to me and she had this purple flower, and she's like, How are you doing? And I was like, I am having a challenging experience, and I didn't expect it to happen. Like, I was feeling really good for a second there, and she's like, Well, that's all right. I brought you this, I brought you this flower. Uh, or she didn't even say flower, she's like, I brought you this. And at the time, I don't even know if my mind could like process flour, but it was this purple flower, and I held it like it was this uh talisman or like totem or something, and it was like the one of the most beautiful things I'd seen, but it was so profound. I was like, How did you know that I needed this? I needed this, and I didn't know that. Like, how did how did you know? And she's like, I just knew that's all. And like now I know that like that's probably right out of the um like the psychedelic explorers guide. It's like if you see somebody struggling, you bring them a gift as fast as you can. Just find a gift, you know, that you think is pretty, and you bring that to them, and it might turn their entire thing around. And it she did that for me, and it was like that I held on to that flower until it melted in my head. Like, I mean, literally, like it crumbled. I was sitting in a in a hot tub at the end of the uh as I was like landing, and I remember the petals were just like floating in the water, and I was like still holding the stem for dear life, and um and then this mist came down, and I was just like, you know, I remember the relief of just like being kind of coming back uh was was great, but I was so grateful for like where I'd been, even though there was like some hairy stuff in the middle, which is the same as life, man. Like it's the same as my like the peak of my alcoholism was really dark and very challenging, and like the last couple years that I've had in life have been very challenging and very dark at times, you know. Like I'm sitting here today and it's Sunday and it's like it's gray or whatever, but like I'm on the podcast and like we're having fun. Fun and all this stuff, but like I still like I wail on my kitchen floor sometimes, you know, and sometimes at night I get really upset, you know, and uh sad about like things that have happened or the way they've gone. But like all in all, I feel more held than I've like, you know, I just know I just have this knowing now, and I don't I can't tell you where it came from. I don't know if it's I guess the 12 steps brought me here, but I have this uh I have this knowledge that like or this faith, I guess you'd call it, is that that like I I know that I'm on the path, uh, but some days I get really frustrated and I I think that I should be somewhere else or doing something different or something more profound than I'm doing. But when I'm in the right space, I can see that everything is exactly how it's supposed to be. It should be. Yeah, which is one of the must like the mushrooms gave me that message too. Like it was always meant to be this way. That's what they said to me. And I was like, it's 1111 right now, dude. That's great. That's like a thing in my family. Um wow, yeah, and yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Yeah, I think that's something that Carl Jung said once he was asked, Do you believe in God? And he smiled. He said, No, I know God.

SPEAKER_02 45:20

And I think that's that knowledge, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

And for me, that's what psychedelics have given me. Because I kind of believed in God. I was raised in a Catholic family, in a Catholic school, so it was there somewhere. But I truly uh I I truly connected with higher power through psychedelics, and it's easier to do a step three and hand over your will and your life to someone you've met, you love, and you know you're loved and you can trust.

SPEAKER_03 45:50

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

And I think that that's that's certainly been my my experience. And of course, we all have moments of doubts and moments where we're fundamentally very human. Yes, and uh and fear kicks in.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

Yeah, yeah, big time, yeah. Fear, doubt, and uh like disappointment, you know, all this stuff, but then you know, I get to another experience or like another just I I end up in these spots that it's like that are profound and uh vivid that it's just it's like oh yeah, of course, of course, of course. Like that was another thing that kept coming up during like most of my ceremonies is that just of course, of course, of course, of course. It's like that it's that's it was always meant to be this way, or like I'm right in the right spot, you know. Like the mushrooms have given me a lot and they've brought me closer to my higher power, and that's like my goal the whole time, and all of this, and then and through that, like I've met countless people in this program, like I said earlier, that have impacted me in ways that like I'm just so grateful for, and I can't imagine a life where like that's part of the medicine. That's a even actually that might be the biggest part of the medicine because I wouldn't have found my way to anything and and been able to navigate any of this stuff if it wasn't for these people. Yeah, like it all makes so much sense now, like when I think about it in that perspective. Because if I just like ran into the woods, you know, with like totally with no knowledge or or experience or people like helping guide me, um, like PIR is a really sacred space of of very uh experienced and intelligent people that like you know uh you can find people in these rooms that are just like some of the wisest, kindest, and and realest people like that I know. Like these people aren't like uh messing around, they're not faking it. You know, like this is this is real life stuff.

SPEAKER_01 48:02

And also there's no ulterior motive other than helping you recover.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

And that's what surprised a lot of people from the outside world, even in AA, what do you want from me? Why are you being nice?

SPEAKER_03 48:14

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:14

You know, a lot of people find it even strange, but they don't understand that in order to recover, we need to keep what we have by giving it away.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:21

And that's the wonderful philosophy and lineage of this fellowship. Um we we we pass it to each other, and uh and and in turns I'm sure you have impacted uh the life and the recovery of uh many people in PIR that you've met. Um and that's that's the beauty of it.

SPEAKER_00 48:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:41

I'm conscious of the time, and there is one last question I I ask all my guests is what uh issues are you still struggling with, or what is the one challenge in your life that you're currently working to overcome with or without psychedelics? You've touched on it, yeah. But can you elaborate a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 49:02

It's funny, like as many of these as I've listened to now and like been in the guts of the psych every question I like haven't expected, which is fun. Um yeah, it's fun being on the other side. Um, yeah, so like yeah, like I said before, um what I'm navigating right now is still like you know, the uh I'm mourning the loss of a of a 10-year relationship was the most profound relationship uh of my life. I spent a third of my life partnered with somebody who is who's very special and like I I love dearly, but uh navigating uh how to now just like be Ian and what does Ian need, what does Ian want out of Ian's life? It's strange and difficult sometimes. Um but I you know I cherish my freedom and I trust that this is the will of the universe, and yeah, so like navigating that's been very I wouldn't I wouldn't hand this this path over to anybody else. Yeah, that's all I want to say about that. And then uh like I said earlier, like I'm navigating, I'm just gonna like say it. I'm navigating obsessive compulsive disorder, and it is strange and frustrating and brutal and sometimes beautiful, sure. Like, yeah, like there's you know, it's part of me and I'm accepting that for what it is. Like I want to say I don't hate it, but some days it's it's really frustrating um because the way it manifests, you know, like people don't people think about this stuff and you know, like, yeah, I check the stove sometimes, okay? Like I do that, that's great, but like it's a lot more of it is up here in stories of like what things could have been and what they are is very hard to accept because I think of all the ways that things could have been or could be in the future, and it's very difficult for me to come back to right here. Um, and that's what I'm navigating right now, and and just figuring out what is my oh god, I did again. My sponsor is such my sponsor in AA. I'll be on the phone, and he has this way of always like calling out things that I say over and over again, and he goes, Figuring it out is not a step, dude. Like figuring it out is not a step, but because I'm always saying that, well, I just gotta figure it out. Um but what I'm navigating, how about that? What I'm navigating right now is what's what's God, I don't want to say what's next for me, but where I'm navigating where I want to be, and I'm navigating who I want to be and how I want to be. Um, and with the help of the people in these rooms, especially. I mean, PIR is it's not my only fellowship, but it's the fellowship where I find my tribe, I find my people that show me that like they mirror to me what it is that I need. And it started with the medicine. It's like, how do I do this? How do I integrate this? How do I like, you know, where do I go to ceremony? And how do I have the reverence or respect for these entities that and and modalities that is right and good? And how now it's become, you know, I find fellows that have the same experience, the same things as me. Um, and they're out there, they're everywhere. And I talk to them sometimes till three in the morning, you know, when when the time calls for it. And like, yeah, those are the things I'm navigating. And I wanted to say real quick, I forgot to say earlier, like the way that it was taught to me is that there's five pillars of medicine work of ceremony, and that's like your set, setting, which everybody knows set and setting, but they don't think about sometimes dosage, right? Intention. What am I doing here? You know, is a good thing to ask. And then your integration. So once we're on the other side of this, how do we reintegrate these? How do we basically re-the way I'm thinking about it lately is totally different. I thought it was um, how do I integrate the message, you know, that I got this this message that it's all right here, or the message, like whatever message you're getting uh from while you're in ceremony, how do you reintegrate that? Or how do you integrate that? It's not re-integrate, how do you integrate that into your life? But lately, the way it's manifested for me is how do I integrate from the peak experiences that I've had with and without psychedelics, I should say. Um, how do I integrate into the monotony of day-to-day life? You know, how like uh that's been my path right now, and it's it's something. I don't know what it is, but it's something.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Yes. And again, you've answered my question before I ask. I wanted to ask if you had any any any word of wisdom to close, but the five pillars of medicine is a good one.

SPEAKER_03 53:53

Yeah, I think those are crucial.

SPEAKER_01 53:54

And thank you very much for coming to share your story uh so vulnerably with us.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 54:02

And thank you for all your service on the podcast and in the fellowship. Of course. And thank you, listeners, uh, for being with us today. And see you again very soon. Academics in recovery is a peer led fellowship guided by anonymity, non endorsement, and mutual respect. Thank you for listening and for placing principles before personalities.